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ghjkkklis @ Feb 19, 2017
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DevakLarge @ Feb 3, 2017
Опубликовано видео, в котором демонстрируется «объективность» наблюдателей миссии ОБСЕ в Донбассе.
Лучше всего о результатах работы миссии сказал один из местных жителей, чей разговор с наблюдателем попал на видео.
«Вы ездите туда-сюда, смотрите, а смысл какой?», — задал он риторический вопрос.

Источник http://top-n.ru/vse-novosti-dnya/politika/5159-vsya-pravda-o-rabote-obse-na-donbasse-video.html
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Maha, Im not sure I agree. I think you might be missing the fosret for the trees.Do stories get exagerated for various reasons, from complex social factors to simple fading memory? Obviously. Does the pro-war peeps use this stereotype against anti-war peeps? Also, obviously.Lembcke rightly objects to the stupid one-dimensional characterization of vietnam era anti-war protestors used by the right to tar todays opponents of the war in Iraq, and wants to counter that narrative with another one.The problem is that his narrative is also a one-dimensional distortion of the facts. Spitting is a self-selecting activity, where a small number of offenders account for the majority of victims. 99% did/would never spit on a vet, but 1% who did/would were/are the passionate radical fringe who did/would do it frequently and whenever possible. Maha: First, regarding Jerry Lembcke — the sociologist did not, I believe, claim that no antiwar protester ever spit on a soldier .He concluded that the airport spitting stories amounted to an urban legend. I can\'t find any place where he actually makes such a distinction. Stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans are bogus. No caveats or distinctions at all, not even later in the column. I also found research done by other scholars that showed quite convincingly that acts of hostility against veterans by protesters were almost nonexistent. No researchers cited reports that veterans were spat on again, no distinction about what details\' of the story were false and, apart from the word almost\', no qualifications regarding the number or intensity of such events. Drawing on my own experience as a Vietnam veteran who came home from the war and joined Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), I called the image of spat-upon Vietnam veterans a myth. again, the whole story is labeled a myth\' without caveats as to details. It is true that, one of his three columns he takes the time to specify that I cannot, of course, prove to anyone\'s satisfaction that spitting incidents like these did not happen. Indeed, it seems likely to me that it probably did happen to some veteran, sometime, some place. But I can show what did happen during those years and that that historical record makes it highly unlikely that the alleged acts of spitting occurred in the number and manner that is now widely believed. and The spitting image is a myth, however, not because the alleged acts of spitting did not happen, but because of the way the image functions in the society. However, in the other two columns he makes no such qualifications. To most people, calling something a bogus or a myth carries the implication of falsity , especially since his qualification of what he means by myth is only present in the middle of one column. He uses bogus without any qualification at all.Furthermore, he makes a lot of generalizations that broad-brush the peace movement as friendly to vets. The historical record shows that there was widespread solidarity between the anti-war movement and veterans. , Far from spitting on veterans, the antiwar movement welcomed them into its ranks and thousands of veterans joined the opposition to the war. , in the end, soldiers and veterans joined with civilians to stop a war that should have never been fought. , The historical record shows that there was widespread solidarity between the anti-war movement and veterans. In fact , the Peace Movement was a diverse bunch, which included some who reached-out to vets and others who refused to associate with anyone who wore a uniform a fact which Lembcke neglects to mention in his broad, unqualified, characterization of the movement. Frankly, I dont even know how to begin dealing with his ridiculous implication (bordering on assertion) that PTSD doesn\'t really exist. If dissident veterans couldn\'t be dismissed as unauthentic or not real men, their credibility could be impugned in another way, by raising doubts about their mental stability a course that led to establishment of a new psychiatric diagnostic category, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and the marginalization of Vietnam veterans. , The extension of psychiatric labeling to cover the political behavior of dissident Vietnam veterans came about through the convergence of efforts by mental health professionals and journalists. & If post-traumatic stress disorder was as much the construction of journalists as psychiatrists, it was not built from materials found within the veteran population. and theres even more. Yeah, dissent is sometimes stigmatized as mental illness the brits did it to Sigfied Sassoon during WWI, but that example is DWARFED by thousands of people who really did crack under the constant artillery barrages of the Western Front. Pardon my French, but this is a crock of irresponsible shit. PTSD is a real thing, ABUNDANTLY documented non-military survivors of trauma as well as with vets as far back as WWI when it was called shell shock\'. To imply that it is an invented during the Vietnam war by people who wanted to discredit anti-war vets is absolutely fucking ridiculous and, to me, goes a long way to discrediting him as a politically motivated person attempting to spread his own myth.I could go on, but Its late and I probably got my point across. On a Personal Note: It happened to their cousin’s ex-husband, their brother’s college roommate, their neighbor’s uncle. I\'m too young to remember Vietnam, so I cant speak to direct experience. However, both my father and mother have told me that he (not his friend or cousin , or his sisters boyfriends best-friends girlfriend) WAS spit at and harassed by people on several occasions while wearing his Coast Guard Academy uniform. Furthermore, some of the instances were comitted by ex-friends of my mother who refused to talk to her, and also harassed her, after she began dating a fascist .The fucking Coast Guard the armed service small on arms and big on service . My father flew helicopters and rescued drowning Puerto-Riccan fishermen. Fucking Fascist. :eyeroll:
Efe @ Aug 26, 2013
I much prefer P. Hitchens to C. Peter is an avtaar of the antiwar Right, Christopher of the prowar Left. I\'m basically on the Left, so arguments from that quarter rarely surprise me- I usually just nod agreement. When I read something like THE NATION, I often think This is what I probably would have written if I were in the autor\'s position. And all prowar arguments seem to be more or less the same. So I\'m not likely to learn much from a prowar Leftist like C. Hitchens.Reading something like CHRONICLES or THE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE, I rarely find anything I would have been likely to write. Sometimes I think, If I were on something I might write like this, but not often. Usually it\'s more exotic than idiotic. And there are an inexhaustible array of reasons to oppose war, so antiwar arguments are likely to be fresh and surprising. So I can learn a lot from an antiwar Rightist like P. Hitchens.
Ashven @ Aug 25, 2013